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Wiwar's kingdom chronicles

Smallpox vs. largepox, early war vs. peaceful alliances... the AI is too tame? Discuss the best strategies!

Wiwar's kingdom chronicles

Postby wiwar » Wed Apr 15, 2015 7:40 pm

year 3950 BCE

I wonder, why years are calculated in christian religion, before monoteism is invented?

year001.gif
explored land's map
year001.gif (115.28 KiB) Viewed 6427 times


At year zero we recognized ourself on the grass of coastline near some river.
The palace was build on river (because citizens build's bridges in cities authomatically).
How much this bridge will help in the future (beside it gives some bonus for defense)?
Does it worth to build here from the speed of growth and dissemenation point of view? (it will give 1 turn for all future colonizers, who will not be forced to cross the river in the future)

I build palace on river, and not in another city, because it was 1 turn faster to build.
i might wait one turn to build palace on another city, their production level would be more even,
because palace increases production (+75% on Despotism and +50% on Monarchy).
I decide not to wait (that decision was not based on rational argumens). This will lead to weak production on the second city.

About exploration - it is good to explore coastline, because i decide to settle along of it.
But isn't it dangerous to have no information (assuming that i don't know the map?).
Why then AI explorers always follow coastlines first (instead of exploring around capital with incrementing raduis)?
Last edited by wiwar on Thu Apr 16, 2015 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wiwar's kingdom chronicles

Postby Corbeau » Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:38 pm

Building on a river is always good.
1. defense bonus
2. extra trade (at least in some rulesets)
3. you automatically make a bridge so when you connect your city with roads, units can move on both sides and also connect with the river itself before researching Bridge Building.

So how is it progressing?
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Re: Wiwar's kingdom chronicles

Postby morphles » Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:50 pm

3. you automatically make a bridge so when you connect your city with roads, units can move on both sides and also connect with the river itself before researching Bridge Building.

This is ruleset dependent and is not the case for current version of civ2civ3 (and by extension to my game for those interested).
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Location of the second city

Postby wiwar » Thu Apr 16, 2015 2:03 am

That's good that my leadership is not questioned by others.
Nobody asked me questions why we didn't build on buffalos, but have built on coastline instead.

But also nobody gave me an advise about the location of second city.
That's why dictatorship regime not effective enough.


Should I build the second city on coast, or on wine with river tile ?

different types of terrains give different resources, and we don't have a list
http://freeciv.wikia.com/wiki/Terrain
city modifies output from square, and in different ways, we don't know how


hill with wine will give 2,1,4 square after buiding city on it
buffalo nearby will give 1,2,1 and 2,1,2 after irrigation
plains with shield gives 2,1,0 and 2,1,1 after building road

so I can loss 3 more turns to move colonizer there,
will i gain the profit from the better square with wine?

total output will be:
Hills+Bufallo: 2,1,4+1/2,2,1= 3/4,3,5 (+1 on food after irrigating)
Hills+Shield: 2,1,4+2,1,0/1 = 4,2,4/5 (+1 on gold after building road)
Coast+Fishes: 2,1,1+2,0,2 = 4,1,3
Coast+Forest: 2,1,1+1,2,0 = 3,3,1
Coast+Shield: 2,1,1+2,1,0/1 = 4,2,1/2 (+1 on gold after building road)

irrigation can be build after 5 turns (+ 4 for travelling)

road can be build after 2 turns (+ 3 for travelling)


let's enumerate possible scenarios:
A)
1) build on coast
2) grow with fishes (to reach size 2 faster)
3) switch production when food will be enough to build colonizer, at time when it will be built

B)
1) build on coast
2) grow with grass+shield (to build settler faster)
3) switch to forest when food will be enough to build colonizer, at time when it will be built

C)
1) build on wine
2) use grass for growing
3) build road on grass+shield field
5) build irrigation
4) use buffalos to finish production

D)
1) build on wine
2) use grass for growing
3) build irrigation
4) use buffalos to finish production

How to evaluate these scenarios (by which key performance indicators (KPI)?) ?

speed of population growth (when new colonizer will arrive at second river delta)
food harvested
amount of gold generated
amount of science points generated

I think no human can do these calculations in his head
(one can do with Gantt chart diagrams - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gantt_chart
and spreadsheed processor)
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Re: Wiwar's kingdom chronicles

Postby Corbeau » Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:21 am

Strategy I usually use is grow as fast as possible. Build only on plains and grasslands if possible, build on hills only when you have no other choice.

Also, one turn delay doesn't mean much of a location is good. Some people prefer building on special resources (such as buffalos). It is good strategy, but not a "must have".

What ruleset are you playing? Default? I think that one doesn't give +1 production on a city as a default, only when on grassland, right? Morphles? If this is so, building on a grassland with shield may be bad. otherwise, it would be good.

Also, you don't want to leave too much room between your cities, you want to use as much space as possible. Four tiles distance is best, five tiles only if it's in a straight line (not diagonal).
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Location of the second city

Postby wiwar » Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:10 pm

Corbeau wrote:What ruleset are you playing? Default? I think that one doesn't give +1 production on a city as a default, only when on grassland, right?


I don't know how to determine current ruleset. So I decide to learn about all rulesets:

As written here:
http://forum.freeciv.org/f/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=355
i looked into file
/usr/share/games/freeciv/classic/game.ruleset

Code: Select all
...
; City center minimum outputs
min_city_center_food    = 1
min_city_center_shield  = 1
min_city_center_trade   = 0
...


And for others:
civ1=0-0-0,civ2=1-1-0,civ2civ3=1-0-0,classic=1-1-0,experimental=1-1-0,multiplayer=1-1-0

But there is no "game.ruleset" file in "default" directory!!!

I decide to look where source code is located:
http://freeciv.wikia.com/wiki/Freeciv_s ... repository
and there is no such file too, see it yourself:
http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/freeciv/tags/R2_5_0/data/default/

So I can't explain, why using hill with 0 production gives city with 1 production.

Corbeau wrote:Strategy I usually use is grow as fast as possible.


That's you intent. But do you actually follow it, or your mental bugs prevent you from following it? That was the question I asked myself.
And my calculations show that in this particular map it is better to build on wine, even if i need to wait three more turns.

Corbeau wrote:Build only on plains and grasslands if possible, build on hills only when you have no other choice.


That was my initial intent to build second city, where second colonizer is drawn in the picture.

So I made at least 2 mistakes already (on the turn 1) - It was better to move to wine, and it was better to start irrigation of buffalos earlier, then start building a road near capital.

UPD:
But I am still unsure about wine, because I didn't take 2 corruption points into account... But for the case of capital, there would be no corruption.
Last edited by wiwar on Thu Apr 16, 2015 3:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Game lost

Postby wiwar » Thu Apr 16, 2015 2:50 pm

Unfortunately, I lost this game.
Probably, I unintentionally disconnected the client myself, and game was abadoned in one minute due to the server settings...

It was on xavier's server
freeciv.nmte.ch:5559

I don't know how to contact with xavier (I can talk to him only when i see him observing another game)...


I wish to restore or recreate the same with the following settings
/load british-isles-85x80-v2.80
/set nationset all
/set startunits ccxwwk
/set foodbox 100
/set sciencebox 100
/set techlevel 0
/set gold 50
/set timeout 86400

(actually, the sciencebox was 80, but I want 100)

I need to learn how to save/load a game through internal console.
Also I want to know both "seed"s of this game (If it is possible to open savefile with freeciv client, then seeds are visible in options dialog)

It's good that I lost it early, because later it would cause more hurt...

UPD: the command to show current ruleset is:
/show rulesetdir
/show: Current ruleset directory is "classic"
/show gameseed
Sorry, you do not have access to view option 'gameseed'
/show mapseed
Sorry, you do not have access to view option 'mapseed'
/set gameseed 1
/set: You are not allowed to change the setting 'gameseed'.
/set mapseed 1
/set: You are not allowed to change the setting 'mapseed'.

So, I can't recreate game on the server myself

I can't do save/load on foreign server myself too:

/help: Command: save - Save game to file.
/help: Synopsis: save
/help: save <file-name>
/help: Level: admin
/help: Description:
/help: Save the current game to file <file-name>. If no file-name argument is
/help: given saves to "<auto-save name prefix><year>m.sav[.gz]". To reload a
/help: savegame created by 'save', start the server with the command-line
/help: argument:
/help: '--file <filename>' or '-f <filename>'
/help: and use the 'start' command once players have reconnected.

Is there some server which can be controlled by players (for example through web interface)?
If i make a local game - it will not be observable

/help: Command: load - Load game from file.
/help: Synopsis: load
/help: load <file-name>
/help: Level: ctrl
/help: Description:
/help: Load a game from <file-name>. Any current data including players,
/help: rulesets and server options are lost.

The load command will not help me, because, am not an admin to know the game names.
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Re: Wiwar's kingdom chronicles

Postby Corbeau » Thu Apr 16, 2015 4:43 pm

Don't you know you can play it on your own computer, offline, without connecting to an external server? Just start the client.
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How to register server with metaserver

Postby wiwar » Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:11 pm

Corbeau wrote:Don't you know you can play it on your own computer, offline, without connecting to an external server? Just start the client.


wiwar wrote:If i make a local game - it will not be observable


To make it observable, I need to setup NAT (or spend money for hosting), and learn how to register with metaserver, to allow others to observe game from outside.

List of all servers in the world created by metaserver:
http://meta.freeciv.org/metaserver.phtml

From this article I don't understood how to register server with metaserver:
http://freeciv.wikia.com/wiki/Freeciv_Metaserver

This page
http://freeciv.wikia.com/wiki/Metaserver
explains where to find source codes of metaserver
http://gna.org/projects/freecivmetaserve/
http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/freecivmetaserve/
but not how to register my server with it

man page for freeciv-server
http://www.linuxcertif.com/man/6/freeciv-server/
says
-M address, --Metaserver address
Specifies the address of the metaserver to send your server's information to.
-m, --meta
Directs the server to communicate with a metaserver, a place where Freeciv servers can publish their presence. Freeciv clients consult the metaserver to offer users a selection of games to join. By default the standard Freeciv metaserver is used. You may specify an alternate metaserver with the -M option.
-s directory, --saves directory
Specifies the directory to place save game files created by the server. This is especially useful when you're running more than one server on the same system, as it inhibits your servers from clobbering other's save game files.


Does the game code support IPv6 addresses?
Also, my computer is not available 24x7, but server should provide the ability to observe at any time
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Re: Wiwar's kingdom chronicles

Postby ifaesfu » Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:08 pm

Davide's servers allowed to save and load games. Xavier's ones, AFAIK not.
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