Accounts e-mail HP

Chance to Win doesn't make sense

Smallpox vs. largepox, early war vs. peaceful alliances... the AI is too tame? Discuss the best strategies!

Chance to Win doesn't make sense

Postby Guest » Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:26 am

Seriously, a guy with boy and arrow wins against a Marine or injures said Marine to the point of death, makes sense? not to me . furthermore the AI's units only lose a fraction of the HP my units use regardless of who is attacking or defending, regardless of how advance they are (not) and regardless of terrain..Even Wesnoth's absurd chance to win is better next to this.

And then you have classic cases where warriors storm workers and the AI workers win 'every single time' make sense ? no

In Civilization 2 I never had this or the feeling that the game doesn't make sense in this manner, even when playing on hard which implies that your game balancing is based on gamey math notions more than common sense unfortunately.

Would even be better if there was no Chance to Win and each unit just caused the amount of damage and defense that it should while using terrain for modifiers. because in Civilization each unit is not an individual, it represents a group of individuals so the chance that a Group of musketeers would stand toe to toe with a division of tanks or defeat them should be very very close to 0%. Why? because Muskets only shoot once, can't penetrate heavy armor and have to be reloaded. Tanks on the other hand can both blast from longer range using explosives or mow down infantry with their fully automatic heavy machine guns.
Guest
 

Re: Chance to Win doesn't make sense

Postby Davide » Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:46 am

I would personally fear a guy with bow and arrow hidden on a treetop, even if my US pectorals were at level 99.
But let's return serious; the randomness behind fight results is marginal and, over the long term of "infinite" fights, the limits of the deviation are centered on the defined unit's strength parameters. So, commonly, a marine is stronger than an archer, but individual exceptions may happen.
User avatar
Davide
 
Posts: 864
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:34 am

Re: Chance to Win doesn't make sense

Postby Guest » Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:47 pm

try to play the game on default as it is now then tell me it still marginal
Guest
 

Re: Chance to Win doesn't make sense

Postby morphles » Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:56 pm

Dunno when I hear people complain about such stuff (or wesnoth battle system, which is awesome btw!) I instantly get a feeling: cry me a river.

If you can't handle a bit of non determinism play chess or Go or some other game. The amount of chance is not great at all as Davide said. Maybe you got some unlucky day. But overall it's very realistic, unexpected shit happens in real life too you know, and your plans and strategy have to account for that. Of course in rare cases one can be overwhelmed with misfortune (again as in real life), but that is rare. Also AI has no special cases for damage or chances afaik.

To be fair luck factor can be amplified if you get into early battles, but one must try to avoid that since as far as my experience goes that is recipe for disaster. And if you have marines against archer you have nothing to complain at all.
morphles
Co-Admin of GT10-Hexmap
 
Posts: 446
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:43 pm

Re: Chance to Win doesn't make sense

Postby htiferes » Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:57 am

I'm also having this problem but what is more frustrating is not being able to even the enemy units. I'll send a bunch of units to get a city and before they even reach the city they are killed by invisible units...
htiferes
 

Re: Chance to Win doesn't make sense

Postby Corbeau » Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:02 pm

Wait, with multiple attack and 10 hit point feature, did anyone ever experience a phalanx defeating a battleship?
User avatar
Corbeau
 
Posts: 505
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:23 am

Re: Chance to Win doesn't make sense

Postby Frustrated » Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:43 pm

I've rage quit several games after units with 2-3 times the defense of the attacking AI unit's attack were inexplicably lost. I accept that if a unit has a lower attack than the defending unit's defense (including bonuses), the attacking unit will lose. I do not accept that a phalanx can defend against my tank and win, or that musketeers can take out my stealth bombers.
I've played a lot of regular Civ, and something is not calculating correctly in the Freeciv combat mechanics.
Frustrated
 

Re: Chance to Win doesn't make sense

Postby james » Mon Jul 06, 2015 8:15 am

Frustrated wrote:I've rage quit several games after units with 2-3 times the defense of the attacking AI unit's attack were inexplicably lost. I accept that if a unit has a lower attack than the defending unit's defense (including bonuses), the attacking unit will lose. I do not accept that a phalanx can defend against my tank and win, or that musketeers can take out my stealth bombers.
I've played a lot of regular Civ, and something is not calculating correctly in the Freeciv combat mechanics.


Phalanx can resist a tank (a Mech. Inf. or even an Armor) at a decent chance, with the right defence bonuses. Say, there was a veteran Phalanx in a city on a grassland tile with city walls. This Phalanx will resist a veteran mechanical infantry (Mech. Inf.) at the chance of 2%. Phalanx resisting a Mech. Inf. is surely rare, but happens (2% isn't that low as a chance, is it?).

With an Armor, the defender must be a little more lucky. A veteran Phalanx on a city on a mountain (x3.0 defence) with city walls will resist an attack from a veteran Armor at a 36% chance. Again, it is uncommon that a Phalanx will win, but it does happen once every three combats. In the same conditions a Phalanx will resist a Mech. Inf. at a 84% chance.
(all calculations assume all units involved have full health right before the combat)

I haven't yet seen Freeciv calculate combats ridiculously. I have felt that way occasionally, but I know I was just unlucky. If it is that the AI Phalanx ALWAYS wins against a superior unit, then it may be a bug. Consider reporting.
james
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat May 23, 2015 8:40 am


Return to Gameplay

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron