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Democracy and rapture

Smallpox vs. largepox, early war vs. peaceful alliances... the AI is too tame? Discuss the best strategies!

Democracy and rapture

Postby morphles » Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:08 pm

I haven't played freeciv as much I have played civ 3 long ago, and there I always preferred monarchy, because of it's smaller impacts of war and soldiers.
I have carried that habit to freeciv, and never ever use ether democracy or republic, and I seem to be doing ok against bot's (though I cheese them quite a bit/exploit their peculiarities). But from overall descriptions and how bots play, and from what I read on forums it seems that democracy and rapture growth is basically a must in serious games between humans. Another reason why I don't like democracy that due to its effects it seems: overpowered, cheese/cheaty, annoying do to penalties of war. In my last games I liked communism most, first I go monarchy to remove despotisms penalty on tiles and increase tax limit, then through statue of liberty I go to communism. To be fair communism seems to have very strong advantages, especially if city count gets ridiculous. So anyways my question would be how important is democracy and rapture growth, can one feasibly win a game between humans without using them?
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Re: Democracy and rapture

Postby Davide » Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:54 pm

Democracy and republic are suitable during peace times when a civilization needs to build, grow, and research. Communism and monarchy instead are best during war due to military bonuses.

It's already hard to survive in a Greatturn match by itself, so refusing to embrace democracy won't be of help!
But anyway, you can find more novice and intermediate players on regular servers, so you could practice there :)
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Re: Democracy and rapture

Postby morphles » Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:37 pm

Well yeah I understad that when you play seriously you can't use something just because it does not jive with you. So I'll have to learn to use democracy.

Thinking about this it's more the rapture mechanic that gets on my nerves than democracy, but since you can't that without democracy...

As for war time vs peace, I still think that with sufficiently large number of cities Communism is the best since it has no additional unhappiness per city. In last game I had a situation where even first citizen was unhappy, admittedly that was in monarchy, but I doubt that democracy would fare any better, and you would be in even more trouble since you couldn't use martial law. Communism otho cleans up that very well and double martial law seems like a very very nice thing. Otho maybe I should invest more in luxury, I almost always keep tax at maximum possible science.

As for regular servers, I do not like turn based games where they are no longer turn based :) that is where you have no time to think.
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Re: Democracy and rapture

Postby Major Nimrod » Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:07 pm

If you haven't done so already, you may want to read this article about the Art of Freeciv:

http://freeciv.wikia.com/wiki/The_Art_of_Freeciv_2.1

Please do not scoff and think that you won't learn anything from it. Even seasoned players occasionally go back to re-reading it because they easily forget about certain aspects (especially when focusing on perfecting other aspects :D )

Anyhow, Davide makes a good point about practicing. You will undoubtedly develop a winning strategy against Bots while playing offline. Most people do before venturing into the world of playing against humans. That being said, people are far more cunning and deadlier than the AI. Sometimes you will learn more playing against experienced players in a 2-3 hour long match online, than you would on any GT/LT server over a 2 month period playing 1 turn per day. In fact, the best lessons I ever learned were by simply observing other humans play their civs in regular online matches.

You may be apprehensive about the time constraints. I understand that. Coming from the Civ 1 and 2 world myself, I also prefer true turn based versus real time based games. But GT / LT games are populated by some very experienced players. Not a good place to learn, really. Force yourself to play games where the turn is roughly as follows (this is just a guide, but quite common when playing online in pickup games)

Turns 1-30 = 30-45 seconds each
Turns 31-60 = 45-75 seconds each
Turns 61-100 = 75-120 seconds each

And so on... generally speaking, once you're into turns 60-75 things are getting pretty heavy. Many players will have destroyers or frigates and musketeers by then, and managing your cities will be complicated. But everyone else will in the same boat, so to speak. There's a mechanism that allows you to automatically ramp up the time per turn (possibly a default setting, Davide?) but most players simply have votes at key moments asking to ramp up the time per turn. Simply majority decides the outcome.

Anyhow, keep at it and you'll figure out that there are ways to mesh Largepox and Smallpox together at the same time 8-)
"Big Brother is watching you" - George Orwell
"Shh! I'm Hunting Wabbits" - Elmer Fudd
"What a Nimrod" - Bugs Bunny

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Re: Democracy and rapture

Postby ifaesfu » Sat Aug 03, 2013 3:20 am

morphles wrote:Thinking about this it's more the rapture mechanic that gets on my nerves than democracy, but since you can't that without democracy...

You can with republic too.

morphles wrote:As for war time vs peace, I still think that with sufficiently large number of cities Communism is the best since it has no additional unhappiness per city. In last game I had a situation where even first citizen was unhappy, admittedly that was in monarchy, but I doubt that democracy would fare any better, and you would be in even more trouble since you couldn't use martial law. Communism otho cleans up that very well and double martial law seems like a very very nice thing. Otho maybe I should invest more in luxury, I almost always keep tax at maximum possible science.

It all depends on the phase of the game you are, your position, the neighbours, if you are in war... For example, if you are in peace, democracy is the best goverment by far.

morphles wrote:As for regular servers, I do not like turn based games where they are no longer turn based :) that is where you have no time to think.

AI is dull. To play against humans is a very different world.
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Re: Democracy and rapture

Postby el_perdedor » Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:51 am

Nimmy dont scare the people away, magnetism at turn 60-70... just magnetism, not with muskettes and the other stuff...

morphes if u dont like to play online, i would still insist you to come a observe the games, there are some players u can learn a lot from. And the best thing is u can observe and u see all what a player is doing, so the fastest way to learn as the other just said.

with ur strategy u can win against AI and begginers, but against the so called "pros" u dont have a chance, maybe if u rush an attack in the turns 15-30 but that only works on a 1 vs 1, if there are more players in the game u fall far behind.

So in the end yes u need to rapture to have a chance to win a game against the so called "pros".

Besides the thing is if u got size 8 or 12 city, and if u place them well, u can deal with the unkeep of the units, as if u got marketplaces and banks u can deal with the hapiness of ur people while war times. All that in democracy and republic.

Well a lot of bla bla bla for nothing, just come to the regular games and observe if u name urself the same as here i will tell u is a player to observe.

have a nice and pleasant day,

cheers to all.

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-el perdedor!!! 12.04.2014
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