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combat calculation, ships vs me

Smallpox vs. largepox, early war vs. peaceful alliances... the AI is too tame? Discuss the best strategies!

combat calculation, ships vs me

Postby fritzieh » Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:24 pm

hello.

i thought, i know how the combat calculation works, but especially when ships attack me, i feel fooled.

i got a riflemen fortified at the coast to protect an engineers. a cruiser comes to kill them. i wonder how he does it.
cruiser A:6; veteran x1.5; 6 x1.5 = 9 A
riflemen D:4; elite x2; fortified x1.5; 4 x2 x1.5 = 12 D
so my riflemen should win more than 50% of those battles.
i saved before, loaded some times and counted: attacker won: 7, defender 3.


even worse: fortified riflemen in a city:
cruiser A:6; veteran x1.5; 6 x1.5 = 9 A
riflemen D:4; veteran x1.5; fortified x1.5; in city x1.5; 4 x1.5 x1.5 x1.5 = 13 D
cruiser 10:0 riflemen


did i forget something important or does it look correct to you?
fritzieh
 

combat calculation, ships vs me

Postby JTN » Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:23 pm

[quote="fritzieh"]i got a riflemen fortified at the coast to protect an engineers. a cruiser comes to kill them. i wonder how he does it.
cruiser A:6; veteran x1.5; 6 x1.5 = 9 A
riflemen D:4; elite x2; fortified x1.5; 4 x2 x1.5 = 12 D
so my riflemen should win more than 50% of those battles.
[quote="fritzieh"]i saved before, loaded some times and counted: attacker won: 7, defender 3.[/quote]XxXxXxXxXxXxXx
(In general, another stat to watch is firepower -- Cruiser has 2, Riflemen just 1 -- but in this case -- ship-to-shore attack -- I believe both units' firepower is reduced to 1, so it doesn't matter here. See the built-in help for Combat for more details.)

[quote="fritzieh"]i saved before, loaded some times and counted: attacker won: 7, defender 3.[/quote]
Be careful with this method; the results might not be as random as you think. The game is deterministic, so if you save/reload and then do things exactly the same way each time, then the outcome will be the same.

A better way is to set up a whole set of identical confrontations in the editor and run them one after the other, for true (pseudo-)randomness. Just to check, I did this with the situation you describe (with the Riflemen in Grassland for no defence bonus, since you didn't mention a terrain bonus). The game reckoned a 66% chance of success for the attacking Cruiser; in 25 trials, 7 Riflemen survived, for a ~72% attacking success rate, which is plausibly close.

fritzieh"]even worse: fortified riflemen in a city:
[...]
cruiser 10:0 riflemen[/quote]
I haven't tried this one; is it possible your experiment suffered from the determinism effect I mentioned above?
JTN
 

combat calculation, ships vs me

Postby fritzieh » Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:14 pm

[quote="JTN"][quote="fritzieh"]i got a riflemen fortified at the coast to protect an engineers. a cruiser comes to kill them. i wonder how he does it.
cruiser A:6; veteran x1.5; 6 x1.5 = 9 A
riflemen D:4; elite x2; fortified x1.5; 4 x2 x1.5 = 12 D
so my riflemen should win more than 50% of those battles.
[quote="fritzieh"]i saved before, loaded some times and counted: attacker won: 7, defender 3.[/quote]XxXxXx okay, thanks, so it is
9/20 vs 12/30
indeed?
is that comparison nonsense or correct?

JTN"][quote=""][quote="fritzieh"]i saved before, loaded some times and counted: attacker won: 7, defender 3.[/quote]
The game is deterministic, so if you save/reload and then do things exactly the same way each time, then the outcome will be the same.[/quote]
i do not remember seeing that weird word before, relating to video games it sounds bad to me and i do not believe that freeciv is a bad game.
since that score went like
1:0
1:2
7:2
7:3, i am sure, that is not deterministic.

JTNfritzieh"]even worse: fortified riflemen in a city:
[...]
cruiser 10:0 riflemen[/quote]
I haven't tried this one; is it possible your experiment suffered from the determinism effect I mentioned above?[/quote]
yes. same game, same round, same saves, same deterministic or not deterministic as the other battle above.
fritzieh
 


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