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Abolish Sea and Continent Identification Number

What would you like to see in Freeciv? Do you have a good idea what should be improved or how?

Abolish Sea and Continent Identification Number

Postby monamipierrot » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:57 pm

If you center-click on a land or sea tile, a unique small number in brackets [] will identify which water mass or which continent/siland that tile belongs to.
This imply, for example, that if at the beginning of the game you can see two shores, one N and one S, by click on a sea tile of both you can inmediately know if they belong to the same sea (so they are somewhat connected) or not.
If you send a trireme to a near shore and right-click on it, you can also infere if it is part of your same island or not. Same for two distant shores.
This is a huge spoiler when it comes to exploring.
This feature can spoil the game even when you have discovered only one shore (and only one land): in fact, from the number in the brackets you can infere how big is the sea/ocean or the land: as the game starts to count the land/sea masses beginning from one tile and proceding on, if on a sea tile the bracketed number is [1] there are high chances that this sea is The Ocean, and if it is a low number, that it is a big interna sea. Usually, small internal seas have high bracketed numbers.
Same for continents/islands: [1] have high chances to be Pangea, high numbers may be smaller islands.

Is there a server-side way not to send the clients this precious and spoiling info?
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Re: Abolish Sea and Continent Identification Number

Postby xontastic » Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:55 am

FFS, it's good point, and should be implemented decent easily/decent hard :D

>> Is there a server-side way not to send the clients this precious and spoiling info?
Not sure about island numbers, but global coordinates are needed by client. Probably island numbers can be dropped.

Quick probably good solution: each player would have own local coordinates, known only by player and server or by allied player ( cause all links would link to some random places ).
So server would need only to translate those coords from local to global coords and then work as previous.
( but it should be separate setting for such game cause all chat links between unallied players will be inaccurate - which is good I think )

I might try to implement that in near future ( month ? ) but it wont come to mainline until freeciv 2.5 ( I guess its about 1.5 year)
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Re: Abolish Sea and Continent Identification Number

Postby Davide » Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:34 pm

xontastic wrote:[...] but it wont come to mainline until freeciv 2.5 ( I guess its about 1.5 year)

I guess it's a couple of years, but we can run GT on sets of local patches even if these are not yet in release.
If we gain a strong commitment and many patches of this kind will be developed by GT's users, we could even start to distribute pre-releases of freeciv aimed at GT players.
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Re: Abolish Sea and Continent Identification Number

Postby monamipierrot » Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:06 am

xontastic wrote:Quick probably good solution: each player would have own local coordinates, known only by player and server or by allied player ( cause all links would link to some random places ).

I once thinked about the same. Ok, one more step (giant leap): is that impossible NOT TO tell client the shape amd size of the world? It will then assume all the worlds are flat UNTIL player knows a tile for each x-coordinate, thus (if needed) painting a Earth-cilindrical representation, or all y-coordinates, thus painting an Uranus planet, or both coordinates, thus painting a donut.
Along with random secret planetology settings, it would be amazing to explore a such unknown world!!!
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Re: Abolish Sea and Continent Identification Number

Postby xontastic » Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:24 pm

>> one more step (giant leap): is that impossible NOT TO tell client the shape and size of the world?

No idea, client won't know how to draw eg. minimap, he would disconnect/or make some seg fault probably if server wont tell him shape.
Server could cheat client that map is flat, but later he would need to tell client truth, but no idea how client will behave then, I suppose client is not ready to change map on the fly, but after logging again should be ok.
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Re: Abolish Sea and Continent Identification Number

Postby xontastic » Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:04 pm

Ok, I'll do patch making game more anonymous.
- hide coordinates ( but not shape )
- private chat allowed only to players who has met
- and make fake players names attached to nations and fake ip's ( it would require website to hide nations attached to players also )

So the game would be quite anonymous, no one would know who is player XXX, and where he is. At least if that players doesn't want to say his real nick. Or some players could cheat others that they are eg. me :D
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Re: Abolish Sea and Continent Identification Number

Postby Davide » Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:28 pm

That's good idea. If the patches are well designed, modular, and their effects can be deactivated via some kind of control, then they should go straight into the main Freeciv line, and very likely they will be approved straight away. Otherwise, if the patches are mostly a hack, meant to work now with the current Greattun / Freeciv but not aiming at being portable to future releases, we can keep them just locally in a public repository exclusive to Greatturn, and from there people will be able to browse them like in front of a shop window and cast polls to select which patches to apply to the next games. (Ideas are welcome on the subject, particularly regarding eventual patch dependencies or required versions of the underlying Freeciv).

For faking nicknames: this is not supported by Greatturn as currently there is a base assumption that player_name == user_name.
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Re: Abolish Sea and Continent Identification Number

Postby xontastic » Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:23 pm

Fake real name will be only to clients sent by server, players would log under real nicks, but server will sent fake info to clients eg: polish_ruler has connected from 127.0.0.1.

And Im going to do patch to trunk verison first, not 2.3
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Re: Abolish Sea and Continent Identification Number

Postby Davide » Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:35 pm

That way it's supported :)
Also, writing the patch for trunk should allow for an easy back-port to 2.3.4 currently used by Greatturn.
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Re: Abolish Sea and Continent Identification Number

Postby monamipierrot » Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:28 pm

xontastic wrote:Ok, I'll do patch making game more anonymous.
- hide coordinates ( but not shape )
- private chat allowed only to players who has met
- and make fake players names attached to nations and fake ip's ( it would require website to hide nations attached to players also )

So the game would be quite anonymous, no one would know who is player XXX, and where he is. At least if that players doesn't want to say his real nick. Or some players could cheat others that they are eg. me :D


Anonimous players/nations!!! Simply GREAT.
Once again my self-esteem forces me to tell you that I already thinked about this kind of solution, but I discarded it cause I thought it was far too difficoult to implement.
If you can do it, I can't say other than GREATTTTTT!!!!
Anyway, some suggestions:
- make sure to have hidden nations, otherwise you lose 80% of the actual fun of this tweak. Fake name of a nation will be something like "the light green ones" and so on.
- same for city names, which may be quite a issue and some unrealistic, maybe something like a coordinates, althou it will result in some odd texts like this "the light green ones city in 45,78, ruled by the ruler ofr the light green ones". I can live with it.
- If nations are kept secret in the website, than the website should show ONLY available nations to new players, cause it would be frustrating to select 10+ nations just to learn they are already chosen.

Thanks!
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