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Preventing technology exchange

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Preventing technology exchange

Postby Corbeau » Tue May 06, 2014 1:02 pm

There are people interested in this setting, but is there a technically 100% sure way of making this happen?

So, there are four ways of getting a technology:

1. Researching it yourself
2. Getting it from a treaty
3. Stealing with a diplomat
4. Conquering it with a city

We want to keep 1., so let's discuss other three.

2. can be removed by using techloss setting (if I got it right; if I didn't, please correct me)

3. can be removed by Not_Tech_Source setting (if I got it.... see above)

4. is a tricky one. There is the conquercost setting, but it doesn't actually prevent getting the tech, only throws back your current research. In the end, you can happily go around conquering cities and thus gaining tech from other people and leaving your science far in the negative, never using it again.

So, a few things can be argued here:
This is not a risk-free strategy. It is not trivial to conquer cities, this way you can never go ahead of other people and, once you hit a wall, meaning, you encounter someone you can't conquer because he is prepared militarily and, at the same time, doesn't have his science far in the negative, you'll die.

However, how exactly is the amount of bulbs calculated? Does it depend on the tech you're currently researching or on the tech you conquered? If it is the previous, then you can simply set your research to some low-level cheap technology and not lose a lot of your research while conquring, and then, when you're done, simply switch science back on, recuperate quickly and continue playing.

Anyone have some experience with this? Also, are there some settings I've missed?
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Re: Preventing technology exchange

Postby ifaesfu » Wed May 07, 2014 2:08 am

2. You can use trading_tech disabled from the sociological tab.
3. I don't know that not_tech_source setting. Is it a ruleset setting or a server one?
4. I've tried a little conquercost and I think it has got a very little impact.

The only way to deal with 3 and 4 is to use techlost, but techlost affects all kind of tech transfer, so 2 is affected too, what is good.
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Re: Preventing technology exchange

Postby Grendel » Wed May 07, 2014 6:24 am

I more or less concur.

2. Possible with trading_tech.
3. Looks like covered by not_tech_source effect, but not until 2.5.
4. As you said, only gives penalty, doesn't prevent it outright. I believe with all effects that cause research penalty, if you do not have enough bulbs to cover this cost with the technology you are currently researching, you will lose a random technology. The exact cost is vague, as help says "lose this percentage of cost of researching a new tech" but that amount varies by the tech, so I don't know.

techlost_recv, techlost_donor, freecost, conquercost, diplcost, trading_tech seem to be all relevant options.

We played with heavy techlost/diplcost/conquercost settings in LT31. I can't quite remember how we had diplcost/conquercost actually. I belileve diplocost was 100, as I remember trading gold did not work at all. Net effect was that it was difficult and cumbersome to trade techs. We would trade some by exchanging a certain crappy city or two, but you had to wait for the city grow back after constantly losing pop, and even when you traded it the trade often didn't work. What occasionally worked in the end was one player trading a tech he no longer needed to his allies that didn't have it yet.
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Re: Preventing technology exchange

Postby Corbeau » Wed May 07, 2014 7:49 am

Grendel wrote: I believe with all effects that cause research penalty, if you do not have enough bulbs to cover this cost with the technology you are currently researching, you will lose a random technology.


Changed in 2.4: "You can end up with negative research points if this is non-zero."

As for not_tech_source, yeah, I just realised we're not at 2.5 yet. What's the story with that version? Still under development or testing?
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Re: Preventing technology exchange

Postby Grendel » Wed May 07, 2014 5:13 pm

I don't know if things have changed for 2.4, but for 2.3 at least, what the help didn't tell you is that the "negative research points" translated into losing a random tech.
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Re: Preventing technology exchange

Postby Corbeau » Wed May 07, 2014 6:40 pm

This is the most idiotic thing I've heard... Not only that you can't disable conquering tech; you are actually punished for conquering cities...

But I think I saw somewhere that this was explicitly changed.

EDIT: Found it.

"In rulesets without tech upkeep enabled, if the bulb count goes negative (for instance due to 'conquercost'), technologies are no longer lost. This restores the behavior of previous versions of Freeciv."

http://freeciv.wikia.com/wiki/NEWS-2.4.0
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Re: Preventing technology exchange

Postby Grendel » Thu May 08, 2014 1:48 pm

Well, conquercost is an attempt to do what you would like as well, slow down acquisition of techs. You might gain a good tech but then have to re-research a lost tech.

On another note, the Editing_Rulesets wiki says that Not_Tech_Source means "Tech cannot be stolen from the player. " It is unclear to me if this would apply to both conquering and diplomatic actions, but I would think it would apply to both. So I think in 2.5 you would get all you wanted.
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Re: Preventing technology exchange

Postby monamipierrot » Sat May 10, 2014 8:55 pm

Grendel wrote:Well, conquercost is an attempt to do what you would like as well, slow down acquisition of techs.

This is not exactly how I would explain what I want. My biggest concern is to prevent the leakage of entire tree branches to most players in a matter of turns. The reason is that I would love to see tech specialization, i.e. different players (both allies or enemies) will go for different tech branches, developing different strategies, both economical or military.
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