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Mini game to scrach some itch?:)

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Mini game to scrach some itch?:)

Postby morphles » Thu Mar 05, 2015 8:54 pm

In past couple weeks I have got some civ itch, even started a bot game:), though that did no go so well with 4 consecutive pirate attacks on me.

Anyways, in theory I should be able to setup my pi as a server for game of moderately small size, as it uses close to no electricity I could keep it runing. Not sure how well it would perform, but I played some single players games on it, with 5 or 10 players, and it was quite OK, and I think it had both client and server running on it. So server only should be even better. If there would be some interest, I might get enough motivation to setup it in 3-14 days (am I not quick?:) ). Though considering I would be hosting, it would most likely be my way or high way with setup/rules. Rule set would most likely be civ2civ3, map would be some thing small, probably 3-6k tiles, depending on number of players. Non iso squares, wrap both. Almost surely I would make map ether of extreme settings or even super extreme (that is edit ruleset terrain properties to make some terrain more dominant, i.e. ~70% land - desert, = battle for arrakis :), or maybe much much water, or swap, you get the idea, I just mostly want land to be significantly less hospitable, to make good places for cities more precious and distances larger. Also I would not want my IP to go all that public, so likely server would not be in meta, and I would email IP to those that would play. I would probably also like to use newest freeciv version possible, currently that would be 2.5rc.

So, anyone interested?
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Re: Mini game to scrach some itch?:)

Postby Corbeau » Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:26 am

In my view, extreme terrains are boring, meaning you are slow to develop, meaning the game lasts longer and is less dynamic. Never a good thing for a 1turn/day.
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Re: Mini game to scrach some itch?:)

Postby morphles » Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:42 pm

I get your point about it slowing down game somethat. Still I view them as bringing much more interesting game, even if slower. Positions and exploration matter much more, and these are things I really like. I'm also started experimenting with significantly increased tech cost, I'm trying 8x tech cost, though I only started the game I already like where it will likely go (though 8x might be too small). Units buildings and development should become much more important as tech much much harder do aquire. But well these are my odd bal views:) Mainly what I see in more extreeme circumsances is probably a need for less "patternalistic" gameplay, or more pattern breaking, though I might be wrong in how effective such settings are at decreasing prevalent patterns.

In any case, I expected that you will be first or maybe only one to replay, as it seems no one else is posting viewing this much, besides you and me (though I'm mostly reading:) ), in any case would fancy a game, and maybe you know someone else who would play?
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Re: Mini game to scrach some itch?:)

Postby Evan » Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:24 am

Hi morphles,

I'd be interested in playing.
I like the idea of playing on an interesting map like that. I find these 'fair' maps really generic, not very realistic and a bit boring. It makes it more like a board game or something.
I love exploring the map, even if it's a bizarre xy wrap little world of magic teleporting oceans. (or giant-worm infested desert wastelands)
Would there be any particular computery knowledge I'd need, because if that's the case perhaps I'd best not play in case I ruin it for everybody.
Eg. what is pi?
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Re: Mini game to scrach some itch?:)

Postby morphles » Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:19 am

So, even if Corbeau does not like some things, I suspect he would play? This means we only need couple more players to play. Well and me setting stuff up:)

@Evan pi is Raspberry PI, this neat and cheap thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raspberry_Pi
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Re: Mini game to scrach some itch?:)

Postby Corbeau » Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:56 pm

Yeah, I'd play. I could draw in some friends who prefer GT to LT (although one of them said that you specifically ruined the game for him last time ;), I think you know who and how)

Also, scarce environment is something I dislike simply because it slows the game, otherwise I have no problem (and with 8x tech cost the game will take forever, so we may lose some people in progress).

So, I take it, you will make tech exchange possible? So, again, largest alliance takes it all?

However, I find XY-wrap truly annoying. I'll still play, but seriously, do me a favour and make it X-only?
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Re: Mini game to scrach some itch?:)

Postby morphles » Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:34 pm

I'l consider wrapping, but I dislike single or no wrapping as some positions become way way more special (though I know this kinda goes against what I said with limited resources and stuff, thats why I should consider it). Mainly in the same game I ruined a game to your friend (sadly I do not remember his nickname, but I know who you are talking about), I was in a middle of X only wrap, oh and there was amercias game... Also in a middle, Where poles started traderouting for insane income, while being at the center this is not an option. Although again civ2civ3 seems to have toned down routes a bit, only 2 per city and income seems lower, though I'll have to investigate that a bit more. Conversly no routes between own cities...

Tech exchanges obviously possible. As for takes it all, I'm not sure it is given. As the tech cost increase might mean that if you loose tech to oponent in some other way than voulountarily, very likely the amount he saves would ofset costs he would incur from "campaignt" to get it. Though in any case alliances still will likely be powerfull, but this is not civ only problem per se, as any multiplayer games suffers some of that. But I'll think about this. Additionally there is tech upkeep now in civ2civ3, not yet sure how cost inereacts with that, all of that could make game very interesting:)

Also as for alliances, I would almost certainly have no allied victory. And maybe, possibly, some alternate win condition (this could both speed up game and give significant deviation from the usual paths, depending on what it is), that I talked about in some of my other posts.

What slow tech rate does, is allow, lets call it - unit game. GT9, I think, had a case that due to unadjusted tech cost and number of players, many units could have been obsolete almost befour you bould 3-4 (well likely a bit of exageration, still I guess you would agree with that). Same for improvements, you'r cities are bare and bam ton of new improvements come.

Mainly I believe that having slow tech cycle will lead to more "game on land". For example considering sparse specials (10, 25 ar very very most), more serious blockade of cities becomes more possible, and likely, cause to blocade that one special precous square takes only one unit, and you are making effect already. Not an option when you have ton of specials around the city (which again GT9 had insane amounts of, basically max).

Well, I'll better start configuring my PI, there will at least couple of days of work there I believe, and I have some physical wiring issues that might need adressing, though even current situation shouldn't be a problem.
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Re: Mini game to scrach some itch?:)

Postby Evan » Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:27 pm

I'm looking forward to seeing what kind of game you come up with.
Even though it's good to get feedback about the ruleset to be used/map etc., I think there's a lot to be said for someone starting a game that follows the vision they have in their head.

I've been thinking about how to have a game where there could actually be a middle ages, or even an ancient/classical world stage. Slowing down the tech rate is the obvious way, and people have suggested things to compensate like decreasing unit and building costs.

To have a mediaeval period last longer I thought maybe it's possible to manually decrease the individual bulb cost for the first rung of techs, but then it's a long way to gunpowder because of the increase in the general tech cost.

Are you considering using the new 2.5 version? I read on the wiki that it has some kind of new map generator. I've often been frustrated at how difficult it is to get the map to morph the way you intend when you play around with the variables. Perhaps it will work better for your Arakis world.

As for myself, I finally now know how to manipulate the rulesets and set up tailored games, which is great. But it will have to be for my personal use, considering my own limited tech level :)
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Re: Mini game to scrach some itch?:)

Postby morphles » Wed Mar 11, 2015 10:21 am

Well as I play with AI i must say 8x tech seems a bit too extreme, esp considering that I accidentally took rather large map, and have ton of cities. But I find slower tech pace considerably more interesting. For real game I guess tech cost will have to be 4x-6x, though number of players and map sizing will be important. GT9 had big fail on tech (well I always assumed that tech cost scales automatically, thats why I did not say anything), it had huge map, ton of players, and 4k tiles and 5 players based tech cost... Also it tech upkeep seems somewhat interesting, not yet sure if that would give more or less power to alliance. civ2civ3 has it but from my previous game it seems it only kicks in from maybe 30 techs or so, will have to check ruleset. I would think 5 tech free at most would be good. Well I'll be testing tech stuff a bit more. Having significant upkeep might allow someone seriously raid tech of opponent. Take his city with uni, sell it, buy settler to shrink pop, if you get a turn more sell library. All of this might take out significant chunk of his research capacity (even if he takes city back), that he might loose some tech. Prospects of this seem intriguing:) Maybe just jacked up upkeep and no tech cost increase (well maybe 2x) would be enough to lead to seriously interesting game.

Yes, as I said I'll try to use 2.5rc1, just to try new stuff and possible maybe even be useful and find some bugs:) That new generator IMO is very boring, generated couple maps and checked in edit mode, looks like something I would not play:). Earlier (like year back) I was huge proponent of fractal generator, as it supposedly gives realistic or nice maps. Now I changed my mind, "Fully random height" seems by far best for gameplay, esp. on square grid. I just can't precisely describe it, but it now seems best for sane map sizes, generally the smaller the map the better FRH gen fares against fractal. Though even large ones seem rather good. While fractal tends to generate continents of insane sizes, which I find a bit annoying as I like shores:).
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Re: Mini game to scrach some itch?:)

Postby morphles » Sun Mar 15, 2015 8:47 pm

No one is commenting here anymore:) Well I haven't yet setup my pi. Was testing tech upkeep. Seems like a promising feature, but I would say it is botched with current implementation. I though I would set fixed cost (in bulbs) for all techs and use tech upkeep to slow down research as more research becomes available to civilization. Sadly currently there is no way to achieve fixed cost techs. Which means, you have to setup upkeep to ether not kick in at all for likely more than half the game (so whats the point...), or it spirals seriously out of control, very very quickly, things like having 7-8 techs, and top research while being able to contribute basically couple bulbs to new tech (after which you would get to probably something like - 10 research). Though there is third option to update tech upkeep params as game progresses to avoid such runoff cost, I'm still considering it, because while upkeep works, it is awesome, and the chance to lose techs is also incredibly awesome. The part where you could not cut science without possibly loosing tech is nice. Still I long for a day where techless ruleset becomes possible, where everything could be done using improvements. But tech upkeep is good alternative, for interesting games, maybe even when techless rulesets are possible. Provided tech cost management is fixed.
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