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Mini game to scrach some itch?:)

Anything about Greatturn in general, not related to a specific match.

Re: Mini game to scrach some itch?:)

Postby morphles » Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:31 pm

I'd guess forum wouldn't be all that bad :)
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Re: Mini game to scrach some itch?:)

Postby Corbeau » Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:55 am

I'll be away from home Tuesday-Thursday so please don't start before Thursday? :)
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Re: Mini game to scrach some itch?:)

Postby morphles » Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:17 am

No problem :) This is procrastinated start game already. And I still might want to add alt victory, so time is not that bad :)
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Re: Mini game to scrach some itch?:)

Postby Corbeau » Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:19 pm

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Re: Mini game to scrach some itch?:)

Postby Corbeau » Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:29 pm

Also, some suggestions for a much more dynamic start:

- decrease the price on Settlers (still make them use up two population points)
- make granary size for a Size 1 city be 10 (ten), not 20
- start with more workers
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Re: Mini game to scrach some itch?:)

Postby morphles » Tue Apr 07, 2015 6:04 pm

@long turn link, well it does not seem to be all that important for non ladder games, which I doubt this will be. Though if GT gets resurrected, points from this game could be used I suppose. Ether way I do not see a problem with such scoring.

Suggested alternate endings are not all that bad, even if quite anticlimactic :)
I guess for most simplicity, I'll maybe implement (if busyness and laziness do not get me) something like: if player has 5 (maybe 7) wonders, game ends, said player gets x "game points", this might adjust his rank, and then score can be calculated based on something like your ranking.

For other suggestions, almost surely no to more workers. In my tests I start with 2 workers. Live game can be 3 workers, 3 settlers and 3 explorers, thats plenty enough. Also terrain improvement should require investment, in this regard one could even think that starting workers are unfair with regards to military play (why not starting warriors with equal shield cost to workers? that would be 6 warriors for 3 workers :) ). Though I'm not really suggesting starting with military units. I'll think about settler cost, maybe it can be reduced by 10-5 shields.
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Re: Mini game to scrach some itch?:)

Postby Corbeau » Tue Apr 07, 2015 6:46 pm

morphles wrote:@long turn link, well it does not seem to be all that important for non ladder games, which I doubt this will be. Though if GT gets resurrected, points from this game could be used I suppose. Ether way I do not see a problem with such scoring.

Worst case, I can keep that scoring for myself and call it "Corbeau's Trophy League" ;) Whoever is not interested can simply ignore it ;) And if someone is really bothered, he can notify me and I'll remove his name from all lists and ignore him in further games.

Suggested alternate endings are not all that bad, even if quite anticlimactic :)

This only means that you haven't played many variable-endturn games ;) It is even more stressful than when knowing when exactly the game ends ;) "Ok, endgame approaching, I better start building this... wait, someone already passed the treshold? SHIT, I MISCALCULATED!... or maybe still... Wow, where did THIS come from? STOP PASSING TRESHOLDS!!! ... OH GOD!!! JUST ONE TURN!!! ONLY ONE MORE TURN PLEEEEASEEE!! ... PHEW, I made it, now let's end this... hey, why isn't the game ending? Oh, we made only two tresholds? Someone make the third quickly please!!! ... HEY, WHY ARE THE VIKINGS ATTACKING!!! END THIS GAME!!!! END IT NOOOOOWWWWWW!!!!!"

I guess for most simplicity, I'll maybe implement (if busyness and laziness do not get me) something like: if player has 5 (maybe 7) wonders, game ends, said player gets x "game points", this might adjust his rank, and then score can be calculated based on something like your ranking.

I'm not sure you understood. This requires almost no ruleset meddling, evrything is done manually abd it doesn't even have to be the admin (I am more than willing to do it). The only thing that may be required to do in advance is have a late-game CHEAP small wonder that gives embassies with everyone. Or even make it a technology (if it can be done).



For other suggestions, almost surely no to more workers. In my tests I start with 2 workers. Live game can be 3 workers, 3 settlers and 3 explorers, thats plenty enough. Also terrain improvement should require investment, in this regard one could even think that starting workers are unfair with regards to military play (why not starting warriors with equal shield cost to workers? that would be 6 warriors for 3 workers :) ).

Well, that's because you favour military to development. I favour progress and building which means: workers. I also don't understand what you see in desolate maps but hey, you're the admin. When I admin a game, I'll make it more to my taste.

I'll think about settler cost, maybe it can be reduced by 10-5 shields.

Well, realism-wise, they should be almost free. When you look at it, it's just some people packing up and going somewhere else. Game-wise, the cost of 2 population points is already heavy so it should be enough.

One more thing you shouldn't forget: definitely make swamps possible to dry out by ordinary workers. On the other hand, you could make hills and mountains not transformable at all.

One thing I could never understand is why don't non-plain/grass tiles give trade when there is a road there. I mean, if someone is working there, he is producing and his product is also traded. So, there is trade, no? Think about fixing that?
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Re: Mini game to scrach some itch?:)

Postby morphles » Tue Apr 07, 2015 7:59 pm

As for wonder ending game. There is no need for any silly buildings or someone to watch over something when computer can do that :) I just need to write lua script that will check wonder situation every turn. And declare player with 5(7) wonders winner. Though scoring will be done manually any ways. But game ending will not need any monitoring.

It's not that I favor military "development" (that a bit of oxymoron to me :) ), but some, lets say, "direct involvement" into affairs of others leads to more dynamic game. But under present situation military play is mostly incredibly disadvantageous, barring some extraordinary circumstances.

Realism wise, successful settling is way more than packing up and going away :). Esp if you do not know where you'll end up. One has to be prepared for various situations. In any case why I do not like that suggestion all that much is that it would imply (at least somewhat) lesser need for "diversification". In general you should have a city that can pump up prod and pop equally well to get descent settler rate. With such you would only need food. Also due to tech upkeep I do not believe there will be such a large amount of settling. But as I said I'll consider lowering prod cost by 10-5.

No way swamps will be dry-able out. It will be like in civ2civ3. Different terrain is different, and people will live in different conditions ;) Or some places will be very sparsely populated. Thats the point of this game. And swamps are rather good terrain anyways. With farmland you can get it up to 3 food, it is not bad at all.

Ditto for trade. I can understand you argument (even wondered about that myself) while at the same time I do not approve much of it. And one can make counter arguments. Just because there are roads in Alaska and Siberian tundras does not mean that much trade is happening there. Yes goods are being transfered by those roads, but trade is no coming from there (though somewhat better rates possibly come from there), but main trade is not there and very most likely explanation would be that there is no one there to "exploit" the passers-by by providing shelter or foot. I.E. there is no taverns and motels in swamps and tundras :).
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Re: Mini game to scrach some itch?:)

Postby Corbeau » Tue Apr 07, 2015 8:39 pm

morphles wrote:I can understand you argument (even wondered about that myself) while at the same time I do not approve much of it. And one can make counter arguments. Just because there are roads in Alaska and Siberian tundras does not mean that much trade is happening there. Yes goods are being transfered by those roads, but trade is no coming from there (though somewhat better rates possibly come from there), but main trade is not there and very most likely explanation would be that there is no one there to "exploit" the passers-by by providing shelter or foot. I.E. there is no taverns and motels in swamps and tundras :).


You're missing the point. Roads on hills don't give trade and shouldn't give trade automatically. Yes, they should give trade only if there is someone there, to exploit the terrain. That is, if that tile is worked. Geddit?

Regarding swamps, I think you are just stubborn, but, again, you're the admin. One day I'll be the admin somewhere and THEN YOU'LL SEE *shakes fist*
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Re: Mini game to scrach some itch?:)

Postby morphles » Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:10 pm

With such logic every tile should get trade. Which does not seem right at all.

I'm obviously stubborn :). As I said terrain is and should be varied. And large scale alterations are not the norm in reality, never was, it's even doubtful ever will. Well apart from deforestation that is. Large scale because if one were to estimate size of one civ tile, one would see it is of rather ridiculacious size. While, when playing game from about mid game worker armies start doing what is basically planetary terraforming. And I do not like that so much. There is/will be plenty of good land and activities ;).
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