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Mini game to scrach some itch?:)

Anything about Greatturn in general, not related to a specific match.

Re: Mini game to scrach some itch?:)

Postby Corbeau » Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:11 pm

morphles wrote:Yes it does, though there are just two numbers to put there :)


Hm? Why would you need more? Those two numbers give you almost full control over the feature. You don't understand the formula or what?

I'll send some emails. Also, why not mention it on the LT forum or chat?
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Re: Mini game to scrach some itch?:)

Postby Evan » Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:11 am

Hi morphles,

Thanks for the heads up about how long the tech upkeep will take to kick in.

For this game will you be able to replace idling players? That way we don't have to be cautious about who plays.
In the 'ladder wars' game I'm still playing in Longturn, LW2c, there were a lot of new players because it was the lowest rung match, and out of 12 players in the game, 6 went idle from the start, and another 2 later on in the game. Needless to say it has had a pretty detrimental effect on the game. If you're able to replace people after a certain number of turns, it will stop the game being unbalanced and/or the map becoming inappropriate in size.

The current 'general' game 'LT34' is on T54, and even though it's an island game, it has been commented on that nations will start to R.I.P. soon, so the timing is good in terms of finding interested players. Also the other 2 out of the 3 'ladder wars' games just finished, so there's many players with more free time at the moment.

*Will there be a way to download the ruleset and server before the game starts?
*Is there anything specific you'd like us to say in the LT chat or on the LT forum? Perhaps it's best to avoid mentioning possible start dates until everything is ready to go??
*What will we call it? I like the name 'Arrakis' you used. 'Mini game' gives the wrong impression.
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Re: Mini game to scrach some itch?:)

Postby morphles » Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:29 pm

@corbeau yeah I managed to achieve what I wanted, but it's still kinda lame. and implementation has bugs, and also does not take certain things into account (trust me I studied the source quite a bit as I was having problems, just haven't yet filled bug reports), at very least it does not take tech cost reduction from tech leacage into account, well maybe in a way one could consider it makes some sense, but I do not agree with that. I would say this should be moved to lua scripting so that one could have much better controll of it. But this is all for devs, not you guys. :)

Not sure about idling players, I could replace tham I guess, auth db structure is simplle enough to be edited by hand and if need be save files could be edited too to reasing nicks to players. But I would prefer a game to be of more dedicated players that I know somethat :), for example I trust that corbeau won't abondon game, and evan too :) If newbies come it's harder to do. Also game will run on pi, so I do not want big game anyways. Apprantly davide had some problems with resources on real servers, or at leasts thats what I understood from him some times. But it sounds weird cause pi seems to run games pretty fine, at least <100 turns. Game with 11 bots and no problems so far. But we can invite some players, though I would like to cap number of players at 10, 15 tops. Speaking of replacement, I would also be willing to recruit new players in cases someone gets civil war and new nation is created.

As for players, if you can (i.e. they paly on LT), you can contact nimrod and monamipierrot, they should not bailout mid game afaik :)

When I have at least 90% of settings I wan't I'll make ruleset avaibale for download ehter here or maybe on github. Likely I'll even write my reasons of having settings the way I set them.
Well you can mention that players that are not intending to idle, are welcome, in more distincly flavoured game. With tech upkeep at the core (tech costs are constant, research speed limited by upkeep costs), and in somethat resource limited land (specials very low, not yet decided there 10-25), probably somethat extreemish terrain.

As for arrakis, not yet sure, that requires a bit more work (thoguh I have old rulesets somewhere) to deserve such a name. With default terrain.ruleset you can't get all that much desert. And what I intended to be arrakis game had significnatly more alterations. It was ~90% land was "serious desert", normal output 0/0/0 (or 0/1/0). Irigation and road brought it to 2/0/1 (2/1/1 maybe) iirc. However irrigation was so much more limited, in fun ways :) you could only irigate near lake, or shallow ocean, but shores were mostly deep ocean (maybe from swamp too, at least in some versions), you could not irigate from other irigation only. So you had vast barren lands with some suitable habitable location near lakes and shores, which have to be prepared for settling before as cities do not auto irrigate, and even if they did city growth would be 0 from one square. It is still a concept that I really like and might do some time in a future, but not this time/now. (in a same way I managed to creat supper water world going way below games allowed minimum land amount, creating trully water world, that might also be interesting, with some special adjustments to not throw production totally off, though again this is for some other time)


This time will be less extreem, maybe as much desert as possible with regullar generation (driest and hottest settings, thoguh this generates lots of plains and those are insanely favorable terrain in early game), maybe something like arboreal world where it is mostly tundra and forrest, it nicely combines with large mountain ranges, this is very nice imo, since food is scare at first, but you can work the land to be awesome plains if you want, or wet and hot, jungle book. I'll try to name it by the thursday:) will have to look at some maps in edit mode. So one tentative names is jungle book :), another probably "conquering the wastes", and for forrests+mountains dunno arboreal expedition?
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Re: Mini game to scrach some itch?:)

Postby morphles » Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:20 pm

So, some news. Been somewhat busy so not much time dedicated to this. Still got most map generation parameters to something that is very likely to be final or very close to that (will post at the bottom). Some generated maps seem to be beyond epic. But there is a problem, some maps seem clearly imbalanced. Though there is a patter: if there is no continent with 3 or less players, map is likely to be quite good. Though there is no way to ensure that from game. As setting placement option to "all" messes up map generation very seriously. Still I would seriously hate to start the game where one players gets hugish island for himself or some such. So I though about possible solution, considering that save/map format for freeciv is rather simple, and I have already tried to write my own out of game freeciv map gen (https://github.com/morphles/fcsgen if interested, highly incomplete :) ) I'll be able to write script that analyzes the map and give information on occupied continents, so that I could throw away maps that are likely to be bad without looking at them. And instead choose one where ether all players are on same continent or there are no continents with less than 4 players.

As you'll see from settings, I intend map to be wettest hottest temperate, with only single direction wrap. So we can call game something like "conquest of wet hot place", or some such :)

As an aside, I was thinking about alt/additional win conditions. So I though about copying one from spring rts/total annihilation games (at least some of them). Lets call it king wins. Game would have kings, though loosing it would not end game for player who lost him (maybe even contrary he would be given some money or maybe some other advantage), however if only one player remains with king, he immediately wins the game! I believe this could lead to some interesting dynamics. Though some work need to be done for that to work. So with regards to this name could also be "king of wet hot place" :).

Minor side note on generation, I adjusted single rule in terrain, making shallow ocean considerably more common and likelihood of "trireme disconnected" islands much much lower. Which in my opinion should lead to more balanced map, as often times you could get something, like two players have islands near their shores, but one player's island is not connected to mainland in trireme passable shallow ocean, so he is at significant disadvantage. Though of course this does not eliminate all the problems, it still makes much better IMO. I'm also considering giving ships 3x movement while 2x movement for land units.

Here are map generation options:
Code: Select all
      "aifill", 15
      "generator", "RANDOM"
      "topology", "WRAPX"
      "mapsize", "PLAYER"
      "tilesperplayer", 150
      "tinyisles", "ENABLED"
     "huts", 0
     "specials", 15
     "separatepoles", "DISABLED"
     "alltemperate", "ENABLED"
     "temperature", 100
     "landmass", 35
     "steepness", 5
     "wetness", 50

Also I'll try to create github repo with my ruleset tomorrow.
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Re: Mini game to scrach some itch?:)

Postby morphles » Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:34 pm

Added ruleset to github: https://github.com/morphles/gt_personal
Though quite some changes will still need to be made. http://freeciv.wikia.com/wiki/Longturn# ... Game_Rules This also gives some ideas for possible modifications. Will report my progress.
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Re: Mini game to scrach some itch?:)

Postby el_perdedor » Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:07 am

im in!!!
konradhellwig@yahoo.com
write me, when the time has come.
im open to anykind of game!
"bla bla blabla bla blaaa blabla!"
-el perdedor!!! 12.04.2014
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Re: Mini game to scrach some itch?:)

Postby morphles » Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:24 pm

https://github.com/morphles/gt_personal

Ruleset updated. Likely close to final version. Possibly alternate win condition could be added. And maybe make buildings not function if their tech is not owned, to make tech loss hurt more, but likely I'll not do that last step as it involves some work, and likely tech loss is already quite painful, also losing writing and library effect could be unfairly devastating. In any case I believe we can start next week, after holidays. Maybe Tuesday or Wednesday.

Also it got awfully silent here :(
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Re: Mini game to scrach some itch?:)

Postby Corbeau » Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:36 pm

I'm here.

And I'll notify my friends Sunday evening, when I get home, don't have the addresses here.

What is the maximum of players you'd accept, server-wise?

Also, how about some documentation, an overview of the ruleset? Put it into a new topic?
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Re: Mini game to scrach some itch?:)

Postby morphles » Sat Apr 04, 2015 10:24 pm

About documentation, well I wrote readme visible on github. I though about starting new topic. I'll see about that. As I said maximum would be 15. If you still have contact with GT players on LT would be nice if you could invite them. el could thy that too :)
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Re: Mini game to scrach some itch?:)

Postby thegrime » Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:35 am

Let me know if you'd like a sub-forum setup for the game -- it's the least I can do!
--= the Grime =--

That is all.
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