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Hex tiles implications

Anything about Greatturn in general, not related to a specific match.

Hex tiles implications

Postby Davide » Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:07 pm

Hex maps have the implication to require a hex tileset to look ok.
For example, a hex map viewed via Amplio2 looks like:
amplio2.jpg
Amplio2 on hex map

while on Isophex it looks properly:
isophex.jpg
Isophex on hex map
isophex.jpg (53.81 KiB) Viewed 11387 times


This is the Hex2t tileset. Here are installation instructions, if you don't have it already installed.

Image

Edit: And this is the newer Amplio2Hexbig, still not available in the current Freeciv 2.4.2.
As kevin55I says (thanks!), it can be downloaded via the Modpack.

Amplio2Hexbig, a hexagonal tileset based on Amplio2
Amplio2Hexbig, a hexagonal tileset based on Amplio2
Last edited by Davide on Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hex tiles implications

Postby JonnyH13 » Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:24 am

How and where do you get the isophex tileset?

Edit: It also seems that the server crashed since it does not show up on the metaserver join screen as of the first few min of starting.
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Re: Hex tiles implications

Postby O01eg » Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:26 am

Davide wrote:Hex maps have the implication to require a hex tileset to look ok.
For example, a hex map viewed via Amplio2 looks like:
amplio2.jpg

while on Isophex it looks properly:
isophex.jpg

That is why I dislike hex.
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Re: Hex tiles implications

Postby Davide » Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:44 pm

JonnyH13 wrote:How and where do you get the isophex tileset?

Isophex comes along vanilla Freeciv 2.3.x. Check the settings to change tileset.
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Re: Hex tiles implications

Postby monamipierrot » Sun Feb 03, 2013 2:27 am

O01eg wrote:That is why I dislike hex.

It was me who proposed hexes.
Back with 2.2 I used to play hex games with a tileset which was IDENTICAL to trident (which is IMHO the best tileset), except for using hexes. Where is it? This tileset is ugly. Is it because we selected a ISO type of earth? I want the old tileset back!!! I'm sorry but this tileset looks horrible.
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Re: Hex tiles implications

Postby monamipierrot » Sun Feb 03, 2013 2:34 am

Ok I found out the problem. I give for granted it was NOT a iso map, but it is. I never played with a iso hex map. The problem is that you can't choose a tileset: you have to use horrible isophex tileset.
Hex2t tileset is beautiful and bugless, given a NON-ISO (normal) hex world.
To play in these conditions is annoying, I vote for restart the game with a non-iso world.
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Re: Hex tiles implications

Postby Major Nimrod » Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:03 pm

Been playing freeciv for a few years, and frankly i think most players are used to playing on an isolinear tileset, and not on a Hex tileset.

The proof in the pudding is that very few people are developping hex tilesets for newer and newer incarnations of the game as revisions increment upwards. Take a look at the number of customized tilesets created on the official freeciv wiki page, and you'll be hard pressed to find up to date hex tilesets compatible with the latest versions of freeciv.

I take that as a sign that hex isn't particularly popular. Looking at the tone of the chatter on the public messages on GT01, it seems that the general consensus is that people aren't too pleased with this map. I'm definitely going to vote for a restart, but I'm not playing on any future HEX tileset games. For the moment, I have no choice but to use isophex tileset for this game as it stands, but it's visually ugly and hurts my eyes, frankly.

Let's hope that future polls that have such major implications to game setups prior to starting a GT game will have a Global Quorum so that a minimum # of registered players (33%...50%...66%... whatever) can have their opinions voiced on any given setting.
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Re: Hex tiles implications

Postby monamipierrot » Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:24 pm

I don't agree.
Hex ahave been voted. What has NOT been voted is the "iso" placing of the tiles. This lead to a terrible combination: hex+iso.
If people are (as I am) unhappy with this isohex tileset, then I think the natural thing is to restart with a hex+normal map, which uses the other hex tileset, which is a replica of the trident tileset, actually the most crystal clear tileset that exists. Trident is used in military map sharing by almost all players I have been allied with. Hex2t is as clear as trident.
About hexes, I didn't hear any actual critic different that:
1- there's no pseudo-3d tileset associated with it, and I'm used to Amplio
2- I'm used to squares.

Point 1 is very weak: Amplio is visually beautiful but sometimes less clear than trident o hex2t. And it doesn't represent x-y proportion in a clear way.
Point 2 is odd: one need to get used to new (and maybe better) things.

Please, about advanteages and disadvantages, refer to this old post by me in LT forum: http://forum.longturn.org/viewtopic.php?id=19
About the "quorum"... this would be the death of variation in greatturn. All the games would be almost identical. E.G. tThere would never be a hex game.
Given that this very 1st hex game started with the wrong foot, not because of the hexes vbut because of tilesets, I would give hexes a second chanches: restart with non-iso+hex.
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Re: Hex tiles implications

Postby Davide » Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:55 pm

I personally guarantee variance of Greatturn matches not by forcing the settings to pass on jerky polls by the 50%+1 rule, but by accrediting those game preferences which remain in circumscribed minorities of supporters.
The idea of having GT01 using the LT31 ruleset originated right from this reason: during the discussions for planning GT00 I noticed there was a minority of players who liked LT31. Then LT31 ruleset was rejected, because it contained too many bugs / inconsistencies, and because nobody registered to GT01 actually liked it as it. This comported most of the features of LT31 to be dropped or changed.
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Re: Hex tiles implications

Postby Major Nimrod » Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:47 pm

@monamiepierrot

1) I've got nothing against games set up with Hex-based maps. I don't believe it will increase GreatTurn's numbers much.

Want to play them? Go right ahead! I won't be joining you, however, and neither will a large number of players.

Take a look at the number of Hex tilesets out there http://freeciv.wikia.com/wiki/Tilesets ... definitely the minority.

Davide has made it clear that he wants to grow GreatTurn by significant numbers. Doing so will require bringing in many casual Freeciv players, most of which will find playing on a Hex map totally foreign to them. I agree it's just a 2-D cartographical representation of a randomly generated geological surface, with a super-imposed grid that determines movement (rectangular, isometric, hex, etc...). However, such a big variation in the normally-accepted way of playing will off-put many players and consequently turn them OFF from GreatTurn (which runs counter to what Davide is trying to accomplish).

2) GT games should be configured by Consensus

You can't make me believe that 5 people voting for a Hex-based game (not even unanimously, but 3 out of 5!) represents the will of the majority of players, when 25 people sign up. Therein lies the problem: A minority of players should not adversely affect the enjoyability of a game by introducing obscure changes. Instead, either have players join a pre-configured server where all settings are known up-front... or, allow settings to be voted on AFTER all players have registered (but before the game begins). Quorum guarantees that a majority of views are taken into account, and the majority of players agree with whatever settings are changed.

3) All settings should be clearly indicated on a given GT server

Should there be dedicated Hex-based games for GT? Yes, you bet! But make sure that it's advertised & known well in advance for anyone wanting to joing that server. That way, "hex" players have a chance to play their games with people who know what their getting into in advance. No nasty surprises after the fact. Here I think there could be some improvement because I did take the time to read about the proposed changes for GT01. I noticed increased movement, increased city-size, etc... but never did I see the fact that it was going to be Hex-based. Perhaps Davide should have made that a bit clearer.

That's it for now. Rant is over :)

P.S. Davide: I'm very grateful for the hard work you've been doing so far getting this off the ground. Keep up the good work!
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