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Added "Trench" base

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Added "Trench" base

Postby Davide » Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:01 pm

As the Trench base (pre-fortress) is often requested by users, I introduced it in GT09. [ Changelog ]

Of course we can also remove it, in case.
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Re: Added "Trench" base

Postby monamipierrot » Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:10 pm

Davide wrote:As the Trench base (pre-fortress) is often requested by users, I introduced it in GT09. [ Changelog ]

Of course we can also remove it, in case.


I don't like it at all. Much better restrictinfra, and if the latter is impossible, than none of them.
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Re: Added "Trench" base

Postby ifaesfu » Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:53 pm

monamipierrot wrote:I don't like it at all. Much better restrictinfra, and if the latter is impossible, than none of them.


What is the relation between restrictinfra and the trenchs?


Please Davide, check these 2 threads before introducing the trenchs if restrictinfra is enabled:
http://forum.longturn.org/viewtopic.php?id=340
http://forum.longturn.org/viewtopic.php?id=343

I don't remember well, but I think that there was a bug that allowed to build directly a fortress using the menu. And, of course, the change of ownership of a tile spoils the game.
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Re: Added "Trench" base

Postby Davide » Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:24 am

Trenches claiming enemy's land is a horrible spoil! Fixed.
Full fortresses still claim land, though. (*)

We don't have the bug mentioned on the link, which would allow to build fortresses even without trenches.

Edit: (*) My mistake: it is the default ruleset to allow fortresses to claim land. In Civ2Civ3, instead, neither our custom trenches nor fortresses claim any land now; not sure for the single tile where the base is built upon, though.
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Re: Added "Trench" base

Postby Major Nimrod » Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:07 pm

Isn't GT08 using Civ2Civ3 ruleset ?

If so, I've used fortresses to claim territory successfully against the natives. Which seems to run counter to the thought that it does not work in Civ2Civ3...

Personally, I like the fact that fortresses claim territory. It's only on 1 tile, and it makes sense: it's a manifestation of the inherent control that is represented by the military power over that singular area. If an enemy cannot stop you from holding a tile and building a fortress on it (which, even with double movement, would take many workers or engineers a couple of turns) then they really don't control the area, do they? :mrgreen:

Seiges are terribly long and difficult when restrictinfra is enabled. Adding trenches as an intermediary step seems to favour the defenders even more so, which I don't think is warranted.
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Re: Added "Trench" base

Postby Davide » Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:15 pm

Yes of course they claim the single tile where they are built upon (just checked). What ifaesfu and me were referring to was about claiming a larger border around the base and gain control of enemy's roads.
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Re: Added "Trench" base

Postby Major Nimrod » Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:26 pm

I've never seen that in a game before, but then again I'm lucky (?) that I've never played an LT game before either ;)
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Re: Added "Trench" base

Postby ifaesfu » Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:13 am

Davide wrote:Yes of course they claim the single tile where they are built upon (just checked). What ifaesfu and me were referring to was about claiming a larger border around the base and gain control of enemy's roads.

As if it was a city? It's that single tile that causes the harm.
The trick these guys are doing is to build a trench or several ones just before the turn change. Then, the tile or tiles change its ownership and you can attack in the next turn using the roads.
Restrictinfra can be a good setting to decrease the effect of the turn change in the game, but this "feature" makes the game into a RTS war.
Without restrictinfra players built the roads just before the turn change to attack inmediately after it.

It would be good that trenchs didn't give the ownership of the tile where it's been built, but fortress yes.
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Re: Added "Trench" base

Postby Major Nimrod » Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:05 pm

I thinks that's a good compromise (trench no, fortress yes).
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Re: Added "Trench" base

Postby Davide » Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:24 pm

ifaesfu wrote:It would be good that trenchs didn't give the ownership of the tile where it's been built, but fortress yes.

Well, I have just adjusted the ruleset to reflect your statement for now. Seems reasonable IMHO, but of course we can still change it. [ Changelog ]
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