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Give marines ability to more units (like civ2civ3)

Give marines ability to more units (like civ2civ3)

Poll ended at Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:11 pm

Yes, attacking from water can come earlier!
5
71%
No, this is way to advanced to be able to do without marines!
2
29%
 
Total votes : 7

Give marines ability to more units (like civ2civ3)

Postby morphles » Thu Jan 30, 2014 5:11 pm

If random map is chosen, as from results it seems likely, I also like presence of 1x1 islands which make map look and feel much more naturar. But in those cases cities in such tiles could become unconquerable fortresess for a very long time, thus I suggest giving marines ability to more units as per civ2civ3. And I think it kinda makes sense, it's nothing that advanced. Also civ3 expansion had some wiking unit that was equal to swordsman (legion by freeicv I think) that had this ability.



Addendum: (by Davide)
This poll aims to define a feature which is a subset of the wider scope of a whole ruleset.
Thus this poll is bound to the outcome of the Ruleset poll.
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Re: Give marines ability to more units (like civ2civ3)

Postby XYZ » Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:00 pm

Sounds reasonable!
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Re: Give marines ability to more units (like civ2civ3)

Postby thegrime » Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:08 pm

I quite like the civ2civ3 ruleset. It seems much more balanced, especially at the later stages of the game.

So I say let's adopt that ruleset :)
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That is all.
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Re: Give marines ability to more units (like civ2civ3)

Postby Gavran » Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:51 pm

Does attacking from the sea give some negative percentage to strength?
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Re: Give marines ability to more units (like civ2civ3)

Postby Major Nimrod » Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:36 pm

No negative impact on strength of attacking units, if that is what you're asking about.
"Big Brother is watching you" - George Orwell
"Shh! I'm Hunting Wabbits" - Elmer Fudd
"What a Nimrod" - Bugs Bunny

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Re: Give marines ability to more units (like civ2civ3)

Postby Gavran » Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:50 pm

Yes, the word I couldn't find at that moment was "penalty".

And no penalty for attacking from the sea, while at the same time having defence bonuses for various terrains doesn't come right to me. I'm not at home with creating variations in FreeCiv, can this theoretically be implemented? So that, say, every unit attacking from sea loses 2/3 of its strength (or even 3/4), while marines lose only 1/3 (or 1/2 or 1/4). So yeah, you can use Phalanx to attack from boats, but it's going to get slaughtered, so...
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Re: Give marines ability to more units (like civ2civ3)

Postby Major Nimrod » Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:00 pm

The first unit to receive the amphibious assault capability in the Civ2Civ3 ruleset are Legions.

Therefore Phalanxes aren't capable of attacking from sea, and wouldn't be able to do much damage even if they could.

Terrain defenses still apply, however. So for instance, being in a city built on a hill would provide not only the 25% city defense bonus, but also the bonus from being on a hill (which stacks). So bring a lot of Legions, because they'll take a beating against such a defense. Add a Coastal Fortress and you better soften up the city with Bombers or a Battleship before even considering an amphibious assault.

All that *without* even decreasing the attack values. So no, I'm definitely not in favour of decreasing them simply because they attack from the sea.
"Big Brother is watching you" - George Orwell
"Shh! I'm Hunting Wabbits" - Elmer Fudd
"What a Nimrod" - Bugs Bunny

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Re: Give marines ability to more units (like civ2civ3)

Postby Gavran » Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:25 pm

Major Nimrod wrote:simply because they attack from the sea.

"Simply"?
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Re: Give marines ability to more units (like civ2civ3)

Postby morphles » Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:48 pm

I think Nimrod dropped a word, phalanx can't attack from ship.
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Re: Give marines ability to more units (like civ2civ3)

Postby Davide » Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:59 pm

Perhaps it's not a case that only marines have amphibious ability in the default ruleset.
I would think of them more as of Seals in regard to sea attack - that is: even if Freeciv doesn't actually provide a specialized unit for amphibious assaults - the Seals - I would imagine that within the name "Marines" Freeciv could heap a wider range of infantry classes. Perhaps this was so decided to reduce the inventory of distinct units.

However, while in theory it makes sense in my head to reduce the strength of unspecialized units (non-Marines / non-Seals) attacking from sea, I think this would be unpractical on the gameplay because, as explained by Nimrod, the defense bonuses applied to the defender would make sea attacks a non-viable option most of the time, thus eliminating the advantage of having generic units with marines ability.
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