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Techloss when giving

Techloss when giving. Choose %

Poll ended at Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:38 pm

100
2
20%
90
0
No votes
80
0
No votes
70
1
10%
60
0
No votes
50
3
30%
40
0
No votes
30
0
No votes
20
0
No votes
0
4
40%
 
Total votes : 10

Techloss when giving

Postby ifaesfu » Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:38 pm

Chance of losing a tech when you are giving it away. Default is 0%, what gives a huge advantage to bigger alliances.
High % will surely make big alliances less powerful.
/set techlost_donor
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Re: Techloss when giving

Postby morphles » Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:53 am

We already have no allied victory to test the impact on allilances thus I very strongly disapprove such measures.
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Re: Techloss when giving

Postby Corbeau » Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:36 am

What exactly does this mean? You give tech to someone and you lose it yourself?
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Re: Techloss when giving

Postby ifaesfu » Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:42 pm

morphles wrote:We already have no allied victory to test the impact on allilances thus I very strongly disapprove such measures.

That won't stop the tech sharing. What is the problem in researching on your own?

Corbeau wrote:What exactly does this mean? You give tech to someone and you lose it yourself?

Yes. But it isn't limited to diplomatic treaties. For example: A tries to steal a tech from a B's city with a diplomat. There are several results depending on the percentages. A can win a tech and B can lose it. A can win it and B keep it. A can win it and then lose it and B lose it too, etc
A is the receiver and B the giver. The same when someone conquers a city.
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Re: Techloss when giving

Postby morphles » Sat Feb 15, 2014 9:06 pm

I'll say as I said previously all these "tech grainded" controlls frankly seem silly. At least in regard of the game, realistically there is no logical reason why you should loose tech when stealing or givin, nor why you should loose when someone steals tech from you or you give it. There are cases how you can loose tech in reality, but such ways to not apply in freeciv something like loosing industrial base, then not utilizing knowledge long enough that it is kidna lostt, i.e. Saturn V engines.

Another problem is that such measures leave lots of things to chance, and this is probably even worse than previous point. If we go with this we should probably add huts an barbarians back? But I do not think anyone would want that. My point is this randomizes strategic game quite significantly (most inportanly in very bad way IMHO) and I fail to see how this can be good in any way.

Any such tech measures should be solved at much finter controll, namely - bulbs. I.e. the more players have tech the ceaper it is to reaserch (which makes sense in any way you look at it). Also when trading tech you do not give thech but give significant bonus to reaserch for that tech for player that is being given it. Which again makes sense, and disallows getting tech with 0 investment in science which again makes a lot of sense. But as I said previous time I mention these, sad part is this needs new code to be written.

Another option is, the one that I attempt to implement in my stalled ruleset, there there is no techs at all and all progress hapens through improvements and possibley wonders small and large. But there are issues with that due to some missing features in engine, but they should come some time in a future, or maybe I could resolve that using Lua.

Anyways just my points why I strongly oppose such measures, esp with no allied victory.
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Re: Techloss when giving

Postby Major Nimrod » Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:48 am

Although I don't agree with all the points, I do have to agree with the general spirit of Morph's latest comments: techloss, upkeep, etc.. is all just plain silly. Whatever the reason, I can't see the benefit; only negatives come out of any such discussion. Or at the very least, the negatives outweigh the positives. Just because a setting exists, doesn't mean it's good for the game :mrgreen:
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Re: Techloss when giving

Postby monamipierrot » Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:56 pm

Major Nimrod wrote:Although I don't agree with all the points, I do have to agree with the general spirit of Morph's latest comments: techloss, upkeep, etc.. is all just plain silly. Whatever the reason, I can't see the benefit; only negatives come out of any such discussion. Or at the very least, the negatives outweigh the positives. Just because a setting exists, doesn't mean it's good for the game :mrgreen:

agree, except for tech upkeep, which I never saw in action and it MAY be a quite good idea providing we think about all side effects.
Yesterday I posted something in General Discussion bout NO TECH TRADING/STEALING/CONQUERING at all. You may want to read it.
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Re: Techloss when giving

Postby ifaesfu » Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:29 pm

To be able to choose so many percentages in this poll and the receiving one can give "bad" outcomes. All below 60-70% is bad from my point of view.
Anyway, it doesn't matter. It seems most players like tech sharing, so no problem.
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Re: Techloss when giving

Postby Davide » Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:47 pm

Outcome: techlost_donor 0
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Re: Techloss when giving

Postby monamipierrot » Mon Feb 24, 2014 3:26 pm

ifaesfu wrote:To be able to choose so many percentages in this poll and the receiving one can give "bad" outcomes. All below 60-70% is bad from my point of view.
Anyway, it doesn't matter. It seems most players like tech sharing, so no problem.

Yes, all those answers didn't have sense: 3 were enough.
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