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Use Gaia settings/principles

A hex-based game organized by Morphles

Use Gaia settings/principles

Postby monamipierrot » Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:51 pm

Please refer to this old idea of mine: http://civland.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=411 about a flavour which I named "Gaia".
Here's Gaias principles:
Principles
Gaia philosophy is resumed in these decalogue:
1 - Experimenting. Setting a path doesn’t mean we can change its direction. Experimental and new features about Freeciv, Great/LongTurn and Gaia itself are welcome.
2 - EverybodyCanWin. Gaia should give balance, and help the weak, the new, the unlucky player (without frustranting the good ones)
3 - Gaia allows the use of AI and AI players, if necessary.
4 - Strategy is important, but not the only thing. Involvement is important, too!
5 - KISS!, or Keep It Simple, Stupid! Gaia ruleset should be simple. A good ruleset has few code lines than a bad one. A good game can be explained to a kid. A newbie can learn the rules fast. Abolish COMPLICATED rules and features, and favour the development of actual COMPLEX mechanics in the game, not in the rules (see Chess, for example).
6 - Keep Micromanagement low, without abolishing it.
7 - Realism without dogmas. History is a huge repertoire of interesting features and behaviours a good game could have. Why invent new ones? Just don't forget about Novelty and remember a great "feature" of History has ALWAYS been "novelty" and "surprise"
8 - a bit of RPG, why not? Yesterday I wanted to be some Alexander, today a sort of Gandhi, and tomorrow worse than Hitler. Let me talk and behave accordingly! Give me tools to do it better! Let me "custom" my nation or my little piece of world
9 - LetTheFateDecide! Abolish cold Determinism, and go back to Civ1 combat chances (“The Militia can defeat the Battleship!”). Undetermined battles are an important part of Fog of war!
10 - Novelty, novelty, and more novelty. Nobody knew there could be America, or that one day men could fly. To reproduce novelty it should be a primary goal. And every game should be different. This should also be achieved with the active help of players, which should be put in condition to find new radical strategies to win.


And here's some of the simplest and available features I would like to reproduce (ruleset could be Civ2Civ3 or some other):

Planetology (or “Earthly” ruleset module)
The aim of Gaia is to give a “earthly” experience, i.e. a world which is as varied and big as Earth is. It could be even MORE varied and bigger than Earth, i.e. there could be still unknown continents in industrial age.
To achive this with current planetology setting is not that simple. Here’s a list of planetology or planetology-related variables:
- 20-100 players
- 200-700 land tiles per player
- 20,000-100,000 total tiles
- The Golden Earthly SubModule (Creates beautiful and varied worlds):
hexes (non-iso)
both wrappings? (better with no poles)
pseudo fractal generator
all in one continent (or: depending in size)
1x1 islands on
30% land percentage (or 20-50%)
- varying temperature/hills/water
- lots of special resources?
- huts on?
- barbarians on?
- AIs on?
These rules should be kept close together and given a name: the “Earthly” Module.

Sociology/military
- mincitdist=0 or 1 or 2. Smallpoxing is possible but disengouraged
- completely turn off tech trading/steal/conquer for 30+ players. There's no way to pass a tech from a player to another one.
- turn on diplomacy and all diplomacy action, included trading cities
- turn off rapture.
- LT31-style rapid growth.
- high chances of destroying buildings
- restricted use of infrastructure
- low/average vision (1x or 2x) with big movement (3x) (combined with restrictred infra, it balances the power of defenders and attackers)
- big, or growing along, city radius
- settlers cost 3 population and lots of shields to discourage smallpoxing
- new unit classes with different behaviours (foot vs.wheeled vs. mounted, active vs. passive, light vs. heavy)?
- no new kind of units!
- more governments?
- WotW are ON.
- Sail developing is much harder (keeping distant islands and continents isolated till modern age)[this could be achieved by swapping physics and Navigation so Navigation requires Physics, and accordingly adjust some tech dependencies]
- slightly simplified tech tree (less dependencies: more techs only require ONE other tech, so somewhat more similar to Sid Meier Alpha Centauri linear tech branches) to enhance player tech specialization (pursuit one branche and don't care about other ones)
- harder to build roads, expecially in difficoult terrains
- more clearly separated branches in tech tree (you may ignore some achievements and focus on others)
- rivers multiply terrain mp x2
- river navigation
- movement along river x3 multiplier
- enhanced vision depending on terrain/infrastructure/unit
- no bonus food for city tile but still possible to found it in mountain if you still feel it is a good idea!
- diplomacy only after embassy
monamipierrot
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Re: Use Gaia settings/principles

Postby morphles » Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:13 pm

I do not like this post or previous one;)

First it contains too much stuff for effective discussion, at least for forum. Second I find some of the points to vague and/or meaningless. With some I do not agree totaly, some seem nice, and some debetable situational.

(what is The Golden Earthly SubModule?)

Yeah most likely we will go with fractal, unless by magic I finish my tectonic "emulation" generator idea.
1x1 on I'm in very strong support for this.
I'm inclined for 45%+5% landmass as that gives more closed seas that seem to be more strategic and interesting than a vast empty oceans with some archipelagos (though those are quite nice too)
I'm inclide for very limited special resources to give them more value (maybe also increase there bonuses?), though that would be strongly experimental, and I do not want to stick too much of such stuff in this game, considering that hex topology itself is kinda experimentalis considering comunity support, so I'm for keeping it default in this game (not so for later ones:) )
Huts are silly all the way around, though they can be tweaked a bit, in general they increase dumb luck, they also have some sheer nonsense factos like givingh high tech (though I see some special "scenarios" in future games there (tweaked) huts could be utilized for very interesting effects)
barbarians, again mostly silly and dumb luck factors, but again I can think of "scenario" games which would center around them and could be interesting, not here and now though.
ditto for ais, unless there will be no players, thant its me and you with a bunch of ais :D

for "soc/mil" section I'll refrain from commenting for now.
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Re: Use Gaia settings/principles

Postby Davide » Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:24 pm

morphles wrote:ditto for ais, unless there will be no players, thant its me and you with a bunch of ais :D

Don't worry morph, it will definitely take time, but in the end there will be a bunch of buddies ;)
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Re: Use Gaia settings/principles

Postby monamipierrot » Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:39 pm

morphles wrote:First it contains too much stuff for effective discussion, at least for forum. Second I find some of the points to vague and/or meaningless.

That's because I didn't introduce it properly. In another post (http://civland.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=410) I stated that GT lacks of one or more strong vision and idea of what matches should look like. A strong vision CAN'T be achieved without some principles, declared by administrators, and somewhat shared by other players.
I believe the decalogue is a clear list of the principles of Gaia. You most certainly were talking about the decalogue when you stated "vague". However, they are not vague at all. They are what Gaia aims to. Then, it's up to us fiddling with rulesets and settings so we can reach those goals.
I borrowed some of the decalogue concepts from C-Evo (althou in a few cases I chose the opposite idea). Afetr all, each of the 10 points of the decalogue is a choice about 10 different and basic gaming design concepts one HAVE to take position on before creating some match rules.
These 10 basic criterias are these:
1 - Experiment vs. Stability
2 - Leveled Chances vs. Strongest Wins
3 - AI policy
4 - Strategy relevance (closed related with 7, 8 and 9)
5 - Simple vs. Complex
6 - Micromanagement policy
7 - Realism
8 - Involvement/atmosphere
9 - Determinism vs. Random Outcome
10 - Novelty vs. Fixed patterns

E.G. C-Evo aims to - and IMHO with great results: 1.Stability 2.Strongest wins 3.AI welcome 4. Strategy is it all 5.Simple 6.Low micromanagement 7.No realism 8.No involvement 9.Strict determinism 10.Fixed patterns - Because of its choices, C-Evo reminds me of Chess. However, my preferences are different.

About Gaia principles, not all of them can be directly implemented without deep structural mods in Freeciv and a change in the GT community involvement.
About settings and rulesets, I hope I posted those which could help in achieving some of the principles. Other settings are not that close-related to one principle but are somewhat indirectly inspired by them. Almost none of them is vague or meaningless, I hope.

morphles wrote:(what is The Golden Earthly SubModule?)

this:
monamipierrot wrote:hexes (non-iso)
both wrappings? (better with no poles)
pseudo fractal generator
all in one continent (or: depending in size)
1x1 islands on
30% land percentage (or 20-50%)


morphles wrote:for "soc/mil" section I'll refrain from commenting for now.

That's one of the most important (and less "vague") parts.


Anyway, I do agree with you on most of things you added, except for your antypathy for barbarians, huts and AI (I'm discussing this in another thread). But I can live with them!

I encourage you to chose some "principles" from the 10 points. When we reach a shared decalogue, we can start discussing rulesets and single settings.
I would avoid like hell to start from a poll which is just a drop in the Ocean, such as the Explorer vision poll.

I will repost those points of the Decalogue which are those I want to convince you (and other players) at all costs :) Those points are (already in priority order):
5 - KISS - Keep It Simple, Stupid!
6 - Low Micromanagement
9 - Less deterministic battles ("The Militia can defeat the Battleship!")
10 - Novelty
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