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Longturn? ... Is it real?

Anything about Greatturn in general, not related to a specific match.

Longturn? ... Is it real?

Postby Davide » Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:16 pm

Ok, you know I got the half intention to host an LT server here on the current domain, and open a dedicated subforum with all the required sections, including dynamic forms for registering the players' account, see servers status (pregame/running, turn number, players participating, ...), get rank lists, and other services too, such as the proposed "world map plotter", which would generate a big colored image representing the known portion of world from the point of view of the requesting player. This image could be downloaded and used to sketch plans on it, and then share with allies.

BTW, I think hosting an LT server won't be an easy task, especially because there are dozens of users with different game preferences, and an admin has to listen to them all and then come out with the most widely accepted solution.
To help me in this task, I thought in this LT server there could be many volunteer co-admins with access to every element of the game, from changing options, to recompiling the sources. Accidentally deleting a file won't be a problem: the server environment will provide automatic backups, accessible in readonly.

How would you like your next LT game to be? Would you like to be a co-admin in charge or administrating the server?
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Re: Longturn? ... Is it real?

Postby Davide » Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:27 pm

I'd also propose the idea to have private forum sections dedicated to team/alliance members communications, accessible only by a secret password owned by teammates. Who doesn't have the password won't be able to read secret communications.
This would be a very powerful infrastructure which till now has missed.
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Re: Longturn? ... Is it real?

Postby ifaesfu » Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:14 am

It would be fantastic to be able to play a Longturn game again, because this kind of game allows you to think and plan each turn calmly.

I'd like a game with the minimum real time shooting possible. As we know, the time limit to be online feature works well. I think this feature it's essential.

We don't know how many players would play, but I'd like a game where you don't need to be in a big alliance to have a chance of victory. I think it can be done with techloss, in such a way that the bigger the alliance, the more likely to lose a tech when getting a new one.

Don't know what ruleset would be better. I like a lot civ2civ3 ruleset "http://www.cazfi.net/freeciv/modinst/2.3/civ2-3-2.3-2/civ2-3/ReadMe_Civ2-3.txt"

Also, is it important the 3x movement?

The turn change should be as little decissive as it was possible. 23 hours each turn, but allowing to make more turns if "turn done" it's pressed by all players.
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Re: Longturn? ... Is it real?

Postby O01eg » Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:16 am

ifaesfu wrote:We don't know how many players would play, but I'd like a game where you don't need to be in a big alliance to have a chance of victory. I think it can be done with techloss, in such a way that the bigger the alliance, the more likely to lose a tech when getting a new one.

We can just turn off diplomacy.
ifaesfu wrote:The turn change should be as little decissive as it was possible. 23 hours each turn, but allowing to make more turns if "turn done" it's pressed by all players.

Then we must notify all players that turn ended before they planned.
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Re: Longturn? ... Is it real?

Postby Davide » Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:18 pm

O01eg wrote:
ifaesfu wrote:The turn change should be as little decissive as it was possible. 23 hours each turn, but allowing to make more turns if "turn done" it's pressed by all players.

Then we must notify all players that turn ended before they planned.

Yes the "soft" turn idea with notification is nice. It could speed up the first turns of the game, which otherwise would take weeks when players have about nothing to move or do. I think that, when all players have pressed turn done, the next turn shouldn't start immediately but rather after a short delay of one hour or two. This way, players who played in a time window near the artificial end of the turn and are not aware that the next turn has been anticipated (for example because they didn't check server's notifications), when they connect the following day at about the same hour they wouldn't find the surprise that their turn is about to end or already did. This is particularly relevant to users who use to play regularly at the same time of day.


ifaesfu wrote:I'd like a game with the minimum real time shooting possible. As we know, the time limit to be online feature works well. I think this feature it's essential.

What about a per-user connection limit of totally 4 hours per turn?


ifaesfu wrote:[...] I think it can be done with techloss, in such a way that the bigger the alliance, the more likely to lose a tech when getting a new one.

Is techloss provided by the standard options techlost_recv and techlost_donor , or is it specific to longturn?
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Re: Longturn? ... Is it real?

Postby O01eg » Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:57 pm

Davide wrote:What about a per-user connection limit of totally 4 hours per turn?

It would be nice. In LT games it limits of 1 hour per turn.
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Re: Longturn? ... Is it real?

Postby Davide » Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:44 am

I'm coding up the next version of Longturn, which will be called Greatturn and will significantly differ from Longturn, in first place for the code organization paradigm. Greatturn will mostly be an external script running on its own, interfaced with the compiled binary of a stable Freeciv version. This terribly simplifies and speeds up implementing new gaming features, other than maintaining Greatturn easily portable to newer releases of Freeciv.

The features I implemented for the past two days are:
  • Parallel process saving:
    In Longturn it happened different times that, for whatever reason, players had to play the same turn twice. This is due to the server crashing in the middle of a game and losing all the current turn information; by that point, the game can be restored no further than by the last available savefile, which Freeciv regularly takes only once at the beginning of each turn. By then, all the turn has to be replayed.
    It's possible for the server operator to manually save the game even more times across each single turn, but, for big maps, that's a CPU expensive task which hangs everything for about 30 seconds, chat included.
    That's why Greatturn will create the savefiles using a parallel process: no matter how much time it takes to save the game, the server will do it seamlessly. This allows for a pilot script to periodically order Freeciv to save to file. The interval between saves can probably be less than 10 minutes so, in case of server crash, users would lose only the last few minutes of game. (note that most of the users may already have completed their turn by the last loadable savefile!)
  • In-room authentication:
    Longturn forced users to authenticate with password even before entering the server; if you consumed all the time Longturn allowed you to stay online, this prevented to enter just to have a talk on chat even if you didn't intend to play. Also, it keeps newcomers away to just have a look at what the server is about.
    Greatturn instead implements an in-room authentication, meaning that everybody can enter the chat as he wishes, but then he has to provide his password to attach to his player.
    At the moment, unauthenticated users connected in chat have their nick shown in gray, while authenticated ones are dark black. This color information is preserved for every type of chat message, public, private, etc.
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Re: Longturn? ... Is it real?

Postby Davide » Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:04 pm

ifaesfu wrote:Also, is it important the 3x movement?

I think it only forces the map to be accordingly bigger, which is a ball and chain for server's RAM. Also, I personally don't like twisting the default moving rule as an end in itself.
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Re: Longturn? ... Is it real?

Postby ifaesfu » Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:18 am

O01eg wrote:We can just turn off diplomacy.

Yes, but the players can get techs from stealing or conquering cities.
O01eg wrote:Then we must notify all players that turn ended before they planned.

mmm. I think we mustn't. When you press turn done, you know the new turn will end at least 23 hours from that instant. Anyway, it isn't an obligation, it would be an advice to speed up the game, mostly in the first turns.
Last edited by ifaesfu on Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:36 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Longturn? ... Is it real?

Postby ifaesfu » Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:24 am

Davide wrote:I think it only forces the map to be accordingly bigger, which is a ball and chain for server's RAM. Also, I personally don't like twisting the default moving rule as an end in itself.

Yes, that's what I think. I don't know if there are other reasons. Also I remember units have more vision in LT and again I don't know why.
Anyway I think it isn't important. We can play with the settings about units we use in the metaserver.
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